Finding and Fixing Leaks in Your Revenue Bucket

Understand how your organization can adopt new effective retention strategies and tactics. Determine what’s next for your subscription business and how you succeed during

Understand how your organization can adopt new effective retention strategies and tactics. Determine what’s next for your subscription business and how you succeed during COVID-19 and after.

Listen to Michael Daley, Global VP Solution Evangelist at Vindicia, and guest speaker Rajeev Raman, CEO of Redfast, for a casual, in-depth discussion of how keeping your customers is always cheaper than finding new ones and industry best practices to reduce active and passive churn.

Learn from the Redfast experience of successfully managing today’s challenges of subscriber churn and retention.

Learn strategies and tactics for keeping your subscribers longer, by optimizing retention and minimizing involuntary churn.

Attend this session for insights that will immediately help your organization adapt to ongoing uncertainty and future opportunities.

On-Demand Playback

Presentation Slides (PDF)

Click here to download the slides.

About Our Experts

Rajeev Raman

About Rajeev Raman, CEO, Redfast

Rajeev is an experienced entrepreneur who brings strong product and design vision; a proven ability to build great teams; consistent execution; and a unique blend of vertical expertise in OTT, direct-to-consumer, cloud, and digital entertainment.

Rajeev is the Founder & CEO of Redfast, a venture backed startup. Redfast is a data-driven retention and engagement SaaS platform for subscription businesses. Redfast quantifies and tracks subscription usage at an individual level and uses variations in an individual’s behavior to deliver targeted remedies that result in better retention and engagement.

About Michael Daley, Global VP Solution Evangelist, Vindicia

Mike is Vindicia’s Global VP Solution Evangelist, where he utilizes over 25 years of deep technical experience and ability to innovate to bring data-driven insights to our solutions teams. As the architect responsible for Vindicia’s Subscription Intelligence, Mike is looking forward to helping you understand how you can gain insight from your own subscription data to accelerate your business growth.

About Vivian Xie, Product Marketing Manager, Vindicia

As Product Marketing Manager at Vindicia, Vivian is constantly sharing industry knowledge. Previously, she lead product marketing at 500 Startups where she used her background in data analytics and growth marketing to bring to life company stories told by numbers. Familiar with a broad range of industries from fashion to blockchain to subscription churn, Vivian strives to create content that informs and delights. She holds degrees in economics, development studies and English literature from the University of California Berkeley.

Transcript

Kathy Greenler Sexton:

Hello, everybody. Welcome. This is Kathy Greenler Sexton. I am the CEO of Subscription Insider and today we have an exciting session for you. We are going to be talking about finding revenue leaks in your revenue bucket. So we’re going to be diving into the topic of finding and fixing revenue leaks in your revenue bucket. And we’re going to do something a little bit different. We have for you, a fireside chat to help you uncover the biggest reasons you lose your customers and what to do to fix it. As all of you know, that keeping your customers is far more cost-effective than finding new ones. And this is what we’re going to be talking about today. We have Rajeev Raman. Rajeev is the founder and CEO of Redfast. They are a venture-backed startup and data-driven retention and engagement SaaS platform for subscription businesses.

Kathy Greenler Sexton:

We also have Michael Daley. Mike is Vindicia’s Global VP Solutions Evangelist, and he is forward-looking and he looks… Oh, sorry. I’m having trouble reading my notes here. He is looking forward to helping you understand how you can gain insight from your own subscription data to accelerate your subscription growth. Michael’s very, very smart with data. And speaking of being smart with data insights, I would like to welcome Vivian Xie. As a product marketing manager at Vindicia, Vivian is an expert in data analytics and growth marketing, and is constantly sharing information on industry knowledge to all of Vindicia’s customers and team. So welcome Rajeev, Michael and Vivian.

Michael Daley:

Thank you.

Vivian Xie:

Thank you.

Rajeev Raman:

Thank you.

Kathy Greenler Sexton:

Our discussion today is scheduled for an hour, so please feel free to use the chat window. If you have any questions during this discussion and myself, Rajeev, Michael and Vivian can see the questions coming in. We have a team here that can also look at them. I just want to say, if you have any other questions that we can’t get to write them down anyway, because we can follow up with you after this session. So with that, I’m going to hand the baton off to Vivian. I’m going to stop sharing the slides and let’s get right into having a great discussion.

Vivian Xie:

Thank you, Kathy. Thank you for having us all. Thank you too, Mike Daley and Rajeev for joining us and offering your unique industry perspectives. So now we’re just going to jump right into it. What do you see as the biggest reason subscription businesses lose customers and how can data help fix it?

Rajeev Raman:

Do you want to go first, Vivian? Yeah, I’ll take that one first. Okay. So look, I mean, I think the way I think about a subscription business is somewhat simple. Content plus features plus price equals value. That’s how a customer sees what they’re getting from you. The other thing to keep in mind is value changes over time and consumption or usage is the consumption of content and features. So in a consumer’s mind, what’s happening is they’re dividing consumption by price and saying, “Am I getting proper value for this service that I’m getting from you?” So the simple way in the way I process things is any time you lose track as the service provider of that equation to an end user, you’re going to lose them. It’s really as simple as that. There are other factors that take place, why someone might lose a customer or why a customer may choose to cancel that are outside of your control, like life events and things like that. But that’s nothing any of us can do anything about. The important thing is really this first part, which is trying to understand usage over time.

Rajeev Raman:

I’ll give you an example. Let’s say that you and I both have a subscription to Netflix. You pay nine dollars, I pay the same nine dollars. Now I have kids. So my usage is, I don’t know, three, four times a week and one or two hours at a time. And maybe you only go there once or twice a week and you spend an hour a time. There’s a pretty big difference in both of our consumption. If they use the tools, if the business use the tools that are in the marketplace today, one would conclude that I am an above average customer and you are a below average customer, but both conclusions are wrong because both of us are perfectly happy paying the nine dollars for what we’re getting.

Rajeev Raman:

That goes back to my point earlier about this sort of individual connection that each user makes with their service to understand what is the content? What are the features? And it’s not just about media. It can be any type of subscription business. When I say content, it’s whatever you deliver to them. That’s the end product that they take away from you and how that moves over time. So I don’t know, Mike, if you want to chime in and add something to that.

Michael Daley:

Yeah, no, I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s… When you sort of look at why people are leaving a service, as you said, there are a number of reasons that are outside of your control. There are things that happen that you can’t really deal with in any kind of effective way. And so you need sort of look at well, what are the kinds of ways that people do leave? And at a very broad level, you’re looking at those that are actively leaving your service. They have had a life event or they’ve had a reason that they actively don’t want to be using the service anymore. There could be many reasons for that. And some of that links back to what you’ve just said, Rajeev, as well, around, are they getting the service that they wanted? Is it what they signed up for? Do they feel they’re getting the value that they perceive is necessary to continue with the service? Is it being personalized enough for them? Is there enough choice for them, in that service?

Michael Daley:

I think all of those are things that we can certainly talk about because I think they are certainly things that we have control over. But there are obviously other elements that people just fall out of favor with services and they move on. But alongside the active people moving, so people who really do want to get away from the service, they don’t want to use it anymore, there’s very much the passive side as well. So people who are quite happy to be enjoying the subscription service, they’ve signed up to, they have no plans to move on, but for other reasons, suddenly the service is taken away from them. They lose that service. And often that’s through some kind of payment failure, that isn’t handled very well. And so you end up having that service taken away and that can be very jarring to a customer who’s quite happy enjoying a subscription, and then suddenly it’s taken away from them. Again, that’s not really an experience that they enjoy and that can have quite a detrimental effect on them staying with a particular service.

Michael Daley:

So I think it’s important that we do identify what are the reasons why somebody is leaving? Is it actively that they’re going? Or is there some kind of passive event that’s happened? If they’re actively going understanding why? I think there’s definitely a scope for people to capture more data when somebody does decide to leave than they are today to understand what, why are they leaving? Because just seeing somebody go and seeing your churn report, show you that you’ve lost X number of people isn’t particularly useful if you’re not understanding why they’re going, what is the reason why they’re going, because that could allow you to save somebody else before they do actually go.

Rajeev Raman:

If you don’t mind Vivian, I have one… He said something that just sparked a thought in my head that I want to add into this. The one thing that is common to the things you spoke about, and the things I spoke about, is this notion of time. Too many businesses do these point in time analysis, right? So they kind of have a team that goes in and looks 1st of the month, 10th of the month, whatever it is and says, “Hey, what’s going on? And are things fine or not?” The problem is you only catch a very, very small percentage of the issues that may cause you to lose customers. When you do these point in time analysis. You still have to do them. The fact that someone’s billing mechanism failed in month six is nothing that you would have been able to see in month five and is nothing you would have been even able to see on day one of month six.

Rajeev Raman:

We just don’t know. The fact that someone’s usage pattern, relative to themselves, right? So I was using it heavily week over week for the first three months. And then it started to tailor off in month three or month four, week after week. It puts you in a place where you have to have automation to solve this problem. Because time is this enemy that you’re fighting with, that you can’t put enough manpower to try to attack and say, “Can I have some really intelligent people and some really clever reports tell me what’s going on so I can go fix it.” This is the one dimension to this subscription business, subscription problem, which has only one answer, which is to automate. But yeah.

Vivian Xie:

Yeah, definitely. All really great points there to really understand and get into the why. And then also, do you guys think that driving utilization would help customers derive more value out of their subscriptions?

Rajeev Raman:

Mike, you want to go first?

Michael Daley:

Yeah. So, I think there’s two ways of looking at it because it’s as much as driving use of the service is obviously important. Keeping people active and moving and engaged, I think is what is important. So every time that they are visiting you, every time they’re interacting with you as a service, they want to know that they’re engaged with you. That’s quite a difficult thing to do when the majority of the time they’re interacting with your service remotely through a web page, through an application, something like that. So having the ability to drive that usage, but also to monitor that usage, to understand what are the behaviors that the customer is providing you? What are they doing? When they log on, how long do they log on for? How do they use your service? What are the most popular things that they go and look at? What are the most popular things they go and download?

Michael Daley:

I think a lot of that information is key to understand, well for any particular customer, what is it that’s important to them? I think that when we look at this personalization is becoming even more important than it has been previously, where understanding what individuals want. So rather than treating a customer as a subscription, and we’ve seen it many, many times where people start a subscription business and to the company, they are just a subscription. They’re not an individual. I think what people are seeing now is that actually the power of having a lot more data about individuals and not just the subscription they’re associated with, their likes, their dislikes, their behaviors. Maybe behaviors just inside your ecosystem, not relating to the actual platform usage itself, all of that could really have an impact on how you understand that customer and that can help you drive them in ways and encourage them in a way to use your platform to actually make the most of it and to upsell. Because having the ability to upsell to a customer you’ve already got, as we know, is a much cheaper option than trying to bring on somebody afresh.

Michael Daley:

So I think all of that data added together and looking at them, not just purely from a billing point of view, although that’s important, understanding what their kind of payment history is, what the kind of payment tools are that they’re using the payment methods, all of that can give you valuable intelligence, but understanding much more about their behavior and what they’re doing with your service can, I think really help you tune what it is you should be doing to encourage them to continue and not get bored, not feel that the service is just a template service that everybody’s getting and actually get them to have some kind of, and feel more value in that service for them as an individual.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah, I think I agree. I feel like we need to find some things we disagree on Michael. Otherwise, it’s going to be a lot of, “I agree.” So, we’ll try and get there eventually today. So yes, Vivian, you asked, is getting people to use the service the best thing a subscription business can do effectively? I think the short answer is, yes, of course. You have to do that. But I’ll give you an example of where I think you can see how easily what Michael said makes a ton of sense, which is this individual aspect. So we’re done with you and I both have Netflix and now you and I both go to the gym, right? So now a new example. So let’s say I go to a gym. And the thing I do is I go there a couple of times a week or three times a week, and I get on the treadmill and I run for half an hour. That is my routine and that’s what I like to do with your gym. I’m paying a subscription fee to go do this.

Rajeev Raman:

The last four times that I have been in there, the treadmills have been full. I’ve not been able to get a spot on the treadmill and I’m being forced to use the stepper, which is this machine I absolutely hate, but because I’m there, I’ve invested the time to be there. I’m like… I can’t swear. So whatever, too bad, I’m just going to get on the treadmill. I’m just going to get on the stepper. I’m going to do my 30 minutes. Now, if all you looked at is basically a consumption like, “Hey, did this person clock in? Did this person clock out?” Oh yeah, you’ll see the same 30 minute pattern before and after. And you could conclude there’s nothing to do here. But I’m minutes from canceling my membership, because this has been going on for three weeks now in a row.

Rajeev Raman:

So here’s an example where it’s insufficient. You do really do have to get down to what’s going on with Rajeev, right? You do have to monitor, “Oh, this is a treadmill guide. This is a stepper spinning gal.” And you really do have to nail it down. You have to understand that and you have to have a system that basically at least gives you some advanced warning that says, “Hey, all may not be that well with this person.” To your example, you use the word personalization, which is what I like, because I think a lot of people use it and it’s become quite powerful, means a lot of things. But there’s one thing about that word that I don’t like very much. Because what that is, is it suggests that the business must do so many things, to make themselves appeal to the user. The part about that, that I don’t like while I think we must all try to do that, is it ignores the fact that businesses exist to make money.

Rajeev Raman:

Making customers happy is a way to make money, but if you forget that you’re there to make money, then making customers happy is your sole objective will not get you there. So personalization will only ever become a cost center if you don’t stick a how it can play to your advantage as well. I give you yet another example. So let’s say now we’re in Ikea. I don’t know how many fish shop in Ikea, but it’s like the most amazing experience in a lot of ways.

Rajeev Raman:

You get up the escalator, you start walking, you see in the walkway, they have these arrows, they want you to follow the arrows, right? Heaven forbid you don’t follow the arrows, because you’ll be lost. You’ll be like, “What the hell? I can’t get back to where I was.” But here’s the thing. If you follow the arrows, the company Ikea guarantees that not only will you find what you came to find, you will surely do that, but you will also be exposed to all these other things you may or may not know that I had. So now you’ve created… Now, when I talk about personalization, I don’t know what the right term is.

Rajeev Raman:

Maybe we just need to find a way to coin it, but it has to be this term that basically says, “Are we creating a win-win situation between you and me?” You, the customer and me, the business. If you’re on a monthly plan and your usage of everything that I have to offer is going up by gangbusters, month over month, week over week, day over day and it’s been that way for some time, why is it bad for me to ask you to go be on my annual plan? Why not create a win-win situation between you and I, now that we’ve both established that equation, that you’re getting a ton of value from me. So do right by me and I’ll do right by you. We’ll keep this going. That’s an example of sort of trying to create, I don’t know if the word is personalization at that point, right? Because, you’re trying to appeal to something that benefits the business just as much as it benefits the user.

Michael Daley:

Yeah. I think that’s a really interesting point. I would agree that you can’t personalize to a ridiculous degree because you have got to make money. A lot of services aren’t actually and don’t necessarily lend themselves to specific types of personalization.

Rajeev Raman:

Sure.

Michael Daley:

But I do think that the key here is really certainly from my perspective around the data, it’s understanding them. Because, even without personalizing them. So, there isn’t a specific plan for every single individual who is on your surveys, because it’s got down to that granularity. I think this is where the data about your behaviors and what your customers are doing can really then put you into… Allow you to put them into pools of activity and usage and then you can start addressing those different pools of your user base. So rather than going right the way down to the individual, I think you can bring it up and you can categorize-

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah, Absolutely.

Michael Daley:

People by the kinds of things that they do and how they do them. And then that’s what you build the plans around. I think on top of that, even if you’re not able to kind of personalize even to a category level of your customers, being able to react very, very quickly to a situation. So being able to deploy changes to your pricing, to your service very, very quickly, I think is again where the customer sees that as being, “Wow. Okay. That’s very dynamic.” They really changed that, they saw something was happening in the market, whether it’s obviously COVID that we all know is going on at the moment. They reacted to it very, very quickly, and it makes a customer feel that they’re on the ball, they’re watching what’s going on. So even if you can’t really categorize and personalize to that degree, just being able to react to the market quickly, can be enough to show that you are learning, you’re evolving your surveys and then sort of growing, having faith from your customers to stay with you.

Vivian Xie:

Terrific. And with that, are there certain questions that you both like to ask your customers, besides pricing, maybe what else could be changed or an offering that you could provide? What do you like to ask your customers to find out more, whether it’s about passive churn or active churn?

Michael Daley:

Yeah. That’s an interesting question actually, because, it’s a little bit like, I’m going to use a complicated example, but it’s a little bit like in physics, when you actually start measuring something, right down deep [inaudible 00:18:58], you’ve actually changed something as you measure it. I think it can be the same when you’re asking questions of people. When you say to somebody, “What do you think?” Just by asking them the question you can actually change what they would have naturally said, to maybe something different. So I think it can actually be quite a challenging thing to do to sort of regularly go out and ask questions, to customers hoping that, that’s going to drive the kind of data that you need.

Michael Daley:

There needs to be an element of that. I do believe that there is an element of the data you can capture in those sorts of surveys, or however you want to term them about how a customer finds it, that are very useful. But I also think that a more discreet mechanism for being able to capture what a customer is doing and how they’re interacting will give you a much more natural dataset to be able to work with. So I think it’s interesting. Questions are important. Rajeev, I’m not sure what you think, but you asked too many questions and I think you’ll end up getting an answer that maybe you wanted rather than the truth.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. No, I think this observation is a way more powerful, monitoring and observation is a way more powerful approach, especially when you’re trying to deal with things at scale, when you have 1,000,000 subscribers or 100,000 subscribers, trying to get the voice or the feedback one at a time is a fool’s errand. You’re never going to get from here to there. Either you’re going to try to make your questions or your answers templated at which point, just like you said, Michael, if you ask it a certain way, you’re going to get back an echo of what you have in your mind, as opposed to what the customer has in their mind.

Michael Daley:

Right.

Rajeev Raman:

So those aren’t that great. I think just watching people in their natural environment. I’ll give you another retail example, because I think so many things have been done well by certain companies and retail that we should just borrow a page from them. Nordstrom. Fantastic, famous for having this killer shopping experience. You walk into that store. I think for the most part, you’ll observe that no one actually comes up and talks to you, as soon as you walk into the store. Some period of time will elapse and it’s almost invisible to you as to when it happens, but at some point someone will come up to you, and ask you something that’s super… There will be a question, “Can I start a room for you? Is there something I can help you find? It’s very, very specific. It’s very relevant to you and that’s happening because the next time you go and just observe, you’ll see that most of the salespeople and associates are standing along the back walls of the store.

Rajeev Raman:

What they’re doing is they’re watching people coming in and they’re trying to make an assessment, which is what kind of person is this? What is he or she looking for? Were they able to… Were they purpose-oriented? They went straight for the thing they came for and they headed for the cash register. They want to… You will not get any help if you’re that type of person, because you know what you’re doing. And so that’s a great page to borrow in the online world. The challenge is, companies like ourselves are building tools to go do that. So it’s not easy to do that, but that’s effectively what you need to do.

Rajeev Raman:

You need to watch each person coming in. You need to understand what is this person trying to get done with your service today? If it’s exactly what they’ve been trying to get done in times past, the best thing you can do is get out of their way. I used to be the head of product at a company called Roku, which I’m sure many of you have heard about. And one of the things I said, when I first joined the company, it was, I said, because this big question about, what would define success? What is the one metric we can pin our product to that we’ll say that our product is doing the job it’s supposed to do?

Rajeev Raman:

After much thought I said, the answer is time to play back, which is the length of time that elapses from the time the screen comes on to the time the user is actually watching the video they came to watch because the lesser time they spend doing that, the more you’ve won, meaning you got them exactly to where they… No one wants to appreciate your beautiful UI, that’s nonsense. What they want to do is sit back and watch TV. So the faster you can do that, the better off you are. So now here’s an objective that you should have. That’s about getting people to where they want to get to and then get out of their way at that point.

Rajeev Raman:

So if you have those types of people, great, that’s what you do. But if you have people who are maybe not taking away from your service as much as they took away the prior week or the prior month or the prior day, well, that’s a brilliant opportunity for you to just sort of step in, stand in front of them, say something to them, with the tools that are available today and guide them, take them down a path. Help anticipate. It creates empathy. It creates anticipation, creates premeditation. It creates all these conditions that shows that you’re aware of who they are and you’re trying to do something on your part, to live up to the money they’re spending with you.

Michael Daley:

Right.

Vivian Xie:

Thank you. So now we all know that data and observations, whether that’s quantitative or qualitative is a great way to study your customers and figure out the why. Again, back to our question, first question in the broader scope to really look at the big picture of why they’re doing something and behaving the way they are. So Mike, how can data be a gateway to identifying what can be done to keep them?

Michael Daley:

So I think this is the kind of question that would probably differ from one subscription company to another, because what a customer actually does and how a subscription is delivered will have a big impact on the kind of data that is available to you. But there is obviously key metrics that you want to follow. You want to actually understand about, about your customers. And certainly from a billing point of view. So looking at the ones you’ve actually got them onto the system, understanding details around how are they paying for your particular service? What we certainly know from our data is that if you look globally, there are very, very different payment behaviors, depending on where you are in the world, even depending on the kind of currency that you’re paying with as well, that can have quite an impact on whether you’re going to be the kind of customer who wants to pay monthly, quarterly, yearly or any combination of those things.

Michael Daley:

So I certainly think that you need to take into account information about where is the customer? How are you delivering service to a particular customer? Sorry, the location of where you’re delivering a service to a particular customer, is pretty important. Once you’ve actually understood that, I know that earlier we were talking about, you can’t really predict when a customer’s payment is going to fail because it’s not something that you have all the data for. There is actually things you can do.

Michael Daley:

I mean, certainly from my perspective, there’s a lot of work that’s going on around data analysis and AI at the moment that is helping us use machine learning to actually look at people’s different payment methods, understanding where they are geographically, what currency they’re paying in, what’s the value of what they’re actually purchasing and what the plan is thereon? How often are they paying for that? And using that information and possibly seeing how they’re paying for other services? Because what we all know is that the chances of somebody just having one subscription is very low, the chances are they’re going to have a number of subscriptions. And so we do see people coming to the merchants that we deal with and they are there and they have multiple subscriptions.

Michael Daley:

So we get to see behavior across different subscriptions and different companies, as well as within a single company. What we’ve found is that we can’t actually quite accurately predict when a payment is going to fail more specifically around credit and debit card type payments, but we can sort of at the moment, we’re about 85% accurate in being able to say, “Do you know what? That’s going to fail, that payment.” So to reduce costs to the merchants, so that they’re not having to pay for an authorization, that’s actually going to ultimately fail and also to increase the speed at which revenue comes into a business, you can reach out to the customer and go for another payment method or an update, very quickly, rather than waiting 30 days, whatever the retry may be.

Michael Daley:

So payment method, understanding what they purchased, where they purchased it. These are all things that are very common to all subscription businesses. I think understanding those elements and using that data to see where are your highs and your lows around take up for the different services you’re delivering? That’s a good start to be able to understand while they’re a customer of yours, how they’re performing and what are the options for actually being an upsell to them?

Michael Daley:

Because obviously keeping, as we said earlier, keeping a customer and upselling to them is a lot cheaper than acquiring a brand new customer. So I think that’s where using just what looks like quite boring billing data can actually be very useful to drill into those sorts of elements I described, to get more information and more insight into what you can do with those individual customers.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. I’d say this. Anybody that’s running a subscription business today, that’s digital in some passion, there’s a page on your site or your app that says, “Here are my three points A, B and C, and I suggest you pick the middle one.” Everybody has this. And underneath that, you have bullets that says, “Well, if you get this plan, here are the things you get.” Right? Now, what’s amazing to me is I would say probably, a whopping single digit percentage of all the companies who have such a page actually connect those bullets that they say is what you get in this plan to whether the user that’s on that plan is able to take those away from you. That’s the first place. If you say, where can I use data to help have an insight into what’s going on with this customer? Are they staying? Are they going to leave? Are they happy? Are they not happy? That’s the first place you start.

Rajeev Raman:

Put your money where your mouth is. If you’re going to say, “Hey, look, you subscribed to this plan. I’m going to give you downloads. I’m going to give you, I don’t know, VIP treatment.” Whatever that means. “I’m going to give you, original content.” If you’re in the media and entertainment business. Well, there’s a way for you to quantify all of that. What is original content? It’s show name A, show name B, show name C. I mean, that’s your original, you should be able to see. Did I go get that? If I didn’t get that, then already I’m on a plan or there’s a gap between what I’m paying for, what you told me I would get as part of this plan and what I’m taking away. So now it’s on you. You have to educate me and say, “Hey, Rajeev, go check out this original content that I have.” It’s got to be specific to me.

Rajeev Raman:

Saying that generically across your population base doesn’t do anything because now you’ve got this blunt instrument you’re pointing at everyone and it doesn’t get you anywhere. So that’s a very, very simple first step that most businesses can do, is just start connecting up the benefits that you outlined within a plan to whether each customer on a one-by-one basis, not on an average aggregate basis, because that’s again, just masking the problem, right? Just back to my example, with the Netflix thing with Vivian and myself, you just conclude based on the averages and you’d get the wrong picture.

Rajeev Raman:

I think the example you gave with billing data is also fantastic. I think what’s also interesting when we look at data and saying, “Well, what are things I can do with my customer?” And we talk about this on our website a little bit, it’s the power of suggestion. The idea is quite simple, right? Which is, you don’t have to pound it into your customer, that you’re delivering value to them. You just need to be there on the sidelines. You just need to be there somewhere visible and extend this concept that somehow you are there for this specific person. Even something… We’ve taken this concept of personalization to the most stupidest extent, every site now says, “Hello, Rajeev.” On the top right.

Rajeev Raman:

It’s so meaningless. It’s for my account section access, that’s such a simple tip I can offer. Take my name and put it somewhere where it seems like it’s connected with what you want me to know. Right? It could even just be a line of text on your website. “Rajeev, here’s something interesting that I think you might want to check out.” As opposed to this sort of blend of vanilla, “Recommended for you.” It’s little things like that that make me appreciate that you’re seeing me for who I am, versus just this big mass of people that you’re trying to get in and get out.

Rajeev Raman:

The other thing that I think that’s happened in the subscription business that I feel is a bit of a dangerous trend. And to be honest, I think it started when dating sites really started taking off was, growth teams got into this dogma that, “Look, if I get back three dollars for every dollar I spend I’m winning. So, I’m going to go and feed this leaky bucket back to the topic of this webinar, right? I’m going to go put money down on the street corners to get people in through the front door. And if I can get three dollars back for every dollar I put in, we’ve won.

Rajeev Raman:

That is a problem with this argument, right? So the biggest problem with this argument is it forces your entire business behind the scenes to go out and find ways to grab those three dollars as quickly as possible. What it ignores is today, we live in a space where people have tons of choice. The switching costs are virtually zero. They can hop from you to the next guy and it doesn’t even matter if your Netflix, at a moment’s notice. It’s that insane. So you are way better off being the one who says, maybe you don’t say it as explicitly as I’m about to say it, which is, “Hey, Michael. You haven’t been getting as much for me as I thought you should get, or as I think you should get, your next month’s on me.” You may even just lead with, “Your next month’s on me. Thank you for being a great customer.” But it’s very specific, it’s for you.

Rajeev Raman:

We may not keep them to have said that, “I see that you’re not using my service.” But you know it, I know it. And it’s the right thing to do. It’s the opposite of trying to grab the three dollars from the minute you walked in the door. It’s you showing empathy and saying, “Here’s nine bucks back, because I really don’t think I earned it.” And guess what that’s probably going to pay itself forward. Back to your point about, so much cheaper to keep the ones you have than to try to get new ones every time.

Michael Daley:

Yeah, I think actually, and there’s… When you look at the way that that customers are looking at that, and as you said, giving somebody a free month, proactively, being very proactive about it. I think we were talking earlier about choice and that’s really where that choice comes in, where having the ability to pause your subscription really easily, and then to resume your subscription later on, that’s something we’ve seen be very successful over what has been a very difficult year. Offering people the ability to just pause what they’re doing with you, with no penalty and then resume what they’re doing with you. That’s actually been a very interesting way of stopping them churning completely and going, “Well, I just don’t, I can’t use you at the moment. So I’m going to… Because, I’ve got no other choice I’m going to disconnect completely.” And the chances of them coming back and actually doing something else with you can then sort of diminish quite quickly.

Michael Daley:

That choice is quite important as well. Things like seasonality. There’s lots of services that actually are generating some kind of seasonal content and that could be from box subscriptions all the way through to over the top of content, movies and the music. And so again, we’re seeing a large number of people starting to look at how they can have on season and off season pricing. Again, it’s that choice. So I think there are a number of things that could be done that allow you to have choice.

Michael Daley:

As you said, giving somebody proactively a discount, if you notice that they’re not really getting as much from your service as you think they could be, or giving them the choice to pause and resume and maybe take a seasonal type package, all of those are things that are going to make them feel, make the customer feel that you’re looking after them, you’re looking out for them. You’re not trying to just bleed them of every penny you can. And I think that’s has a big impact on keeping them or making them much more valuable to you over time, improving their lifetime value by quite a bit.

Vivian Xie:

Perfect. Along the topic of retention and growth strategies, Vindicia CEO, Sharath has recently said retention is the new growth and talks about subscription bundling, being an important trend across the industry, starting with the tech trends, but moving also quickly into smaller types of subscriptions, creating partnerships with one another. So when are retention and growth strategies the same and where are they actually merging into one strategy?

Michael Daley:

Yeah, I think at the moment, they’re already one in the same. I think from what we’ve been saying is that everybody continues to need to grow. You can’t stand still, you do need to grow and you need to look at all of the ways that you can obtain growth. I think that the quote that you were talking about is absolutely right. I think retention is very much being seen as the new growth engine inside the business. Because we’ve said many times already today, getting a new customer should continue to be a focus of a business, but it’s an expensive focus of a business. It’s something that isn’t the most cost-effective when you are looking at maintaining growth in difficult times. So making sure that your customers are happy, making sure that they have choice, understanding how their behavior is moving does make retaining them your option to growth.

Michael Daley:

I mean, we often see it. We’ve got examples where, if you take a company that has maybe, I don’t know, 88% recurring charges and 88% of them are actually captured on a regular basis. Just by increasing that by five percent, just adding another five percent, to the customers that you’re keeping every month without doing anything around acquisition, will grow your customer base within two years by 42%. Now that’s huge, growing your customer base by 42% without acquisition, just by increasing retention by five percent, that’s a lot of growth.

Michael Daley:

You’d have to do an awful lot of marketing and an awful lot of acquisitions to kind of see that kind of growth. So I think that they’re kind of blurring the edges now and they’re already starting to become one and the same and have to be looked at as being in the same and not treated too desperately because I think when you have an end to end approach to your acquiring of customers and the kind of information you’re capturing about them and what they’re doing, and then how you’re retaining them, if you have an end-to-end view of that, that’s a much more powerful tool at your disposal.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. So more numbers. I love that one. That just shows the power of treating the people, if you have well, because it pays itself off so much better. Most subscription businesses I’ve come into contact with and that’s, I’ll admit my focus has mostly been in the digital content space. So media and entertainment, health and wellness, eLearning, gaming and these types of subscription businesses, that the churn rate is somewhere between eight and 12% a month. If you get stopped for a moment and just ponder that, it basically says that every 10 months on average, you’re turning your membership over. That’s absolutely ridiculous. Anyone that’s been in gross marketing knows that the CPC for ad words, the bid price for the same keywords is only going up. We’re all fishing from the same damn pond and the pond is getting fished out.

Rajeev Raman:

So how long can we keep doing this? It’s not surprising that Google posts record earnings, even through COVID because the bid prices are through the roof and Facebook’s doing the same thing. And you wonder what have they… Why? And this is why, because everybody’s focused on bringing people to the front door with their services, not enough focus is going on keeping the people that you have and doing more things with them.

Rajeev Raman:

It could be cross-sells, could be upsells, could even be just doing the right thing by them to our example about the 99 cents. That retention, it is the new… I mean, anyone that studied the problem deep enough will conclude that this is the only scalable way. I mean, you look at Netflix. I mean, I know I’ve used their name many, many times so far, right? There’ve been in the US for so long. They have hit the maximum of possible in the US. I mean, now you say, well, here’s the public company and they have to put X percent growth quarter after quarter. If you’re 100% penetrated, where’s that growth going to come from? But what’s left to do at this point.

Rajeev Raman:

So just imagine that, but don’t think that you’ve reached 100% penetration, but get the discipline early, because now their focus is on keeping people. Their focus is entirely on creating increasing value to the people that they have. And so if you bring that mindset in now to whichever stage your subscription business is in, man, the dividends are just crazy.

Michael Daley:

Yeah. I think that’s a good point. And certainly on the bundling side as well. We’re seeing so many more conversations about people wanting to bundle somebody else’s service along with theirs to increase their value proposition to their customers. This isn’t just the big telco companies, the large sort of telecommunications companies that we see, they do want to be able to sell you your phone and your subscription, and then have Spotify and Netflix, and a number of other services alongside as well. But this is getting even smaller. We’re seeing sort of these micro aggregators, these very small businesses that are setting themselves up and almost taking on the marketing, if you like, of a particular set of services, but then they are using other subscription services behind them to actually go out and do those things.

Michael Daley:

I know that locally where I live, there is a company now that is doing that for home care. So you can have somebody, you can go to this one place, you can have one subscription with them, but then behind the scenes, they’re providing you with somebody. Who’s going to look after your garden, somebody who’s going to do maintenance on your house, somebody who can come and actually do decorating, but all through this one subscription. So there is aggregator, that is just putting in other, bundling other people. And so I do think that as you get to that 100% penetration in some areas, and I know that not a lot of subscriptions are there today, bundling in something new, bringing in something different, that maybe you’re not even delivering yourself, is starting to become more important. And as I say, right from the very, very large telecoms companies, all the way down to very small businesses that see this, this ability to be able to aggregate other services.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. I think the one challenge with bundling that I feel is that, I honestly haven’t thought about it enough to know whether I’m a fan or not a fan of it. But the one thing that I feel is very difficult for most businesses to do is sit at a point in time and conclude that they must pursue a bundle-based strategy, for their subscription business and have any kind of model that has any level of certainty as to what impact it can bring. It’s going to take up a lot of time. It’s going to take up a lot of money and it’s going to take a lot of resources. That’s time, depending on your size of company and wherewithal, that maybe you can’t afford. You can’t afford to take your eye off the ball, chasing this one partnership that you is going to create this bundle, that’s going to make your business. It can’t be a desperation play.

Rajeev Raman:

I guess that’s the way I would put it. It can’t be a desperation play. It can’t be the answer to your retention strategy. It’s got to go in the icing bucket. It’s got to be something that you can do because you know what? You can afford to do it. You can try it. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, that’s fine too. But the sort of disparate bundles to put those together as your go-to market. Yeah, that’s a bit of a tough one for me personally, to say that, “Yeah. Let’s all go out and do that.”

Michael Daley:

Yeah. That’s a fair point.

Vivian Xie:

Great. So if a company, subscription company does all of the right things that you both mentioned, what sort of retention and growth results or ROI can they expect to see?

Rajeev Raman:

Well, yeah. I think there’s a lot of good answers to that question. I’ll start with a few. So on our platform and right fast, we look at it a few different ways. In fact, there’s this… One of the most important ways is something that we call a retention cohort to those that are familiar with that term and what that effectively measures is on a period over period basis, it could be a day, could be a week, could be a month, what portion of the users that came to you for the first time, that day, that week, that month came back the following day, week or month? Usually for most companies, it’s a chart that’s sort of going down like that, which is, after some period of time, the people who came X weeks or X days ago was now down to 10% of those people. That’s your monthly churn, that’s your bleed, that’s happening as you go from the front to back.

Rajeev Raman:

In that metric, in that metric of a retention cohort, we’ve seen our customers and today we actually have some amazing data around it. To put some real numbers on the table, back in January, when we first got going, we had about 100,000 daily active users going through our systems. So these are end consumers of our customers. And so consumers in a subscription consuming a service. Last month, we had over 10,000,000 daily active users go through our platform. So it’s 100X growth and that’s even higher now. So we actually have some real data to actually study and understand what is the impact that this one-to-one approach can have, where you treat people as individuals?

Rajeev Raman:

We have seen cases where the impact has been 3X, meaning if you had 30% of your customers come back to you in month five, now you’re looking at three times that number. And so that level of impact where you’re having a triple digit impact to your retention, is not crazy. It is when you sit here at this place where you haven’t done anything about it, you’re like, “I don’t believe this guy.” But I’m telling you it is because you’re not doing the basics of paying attention, do people want to attend? The minute you do that, the returns are ridiculous.

Rajeev Raman:

I’ll give you another example, data-wise. That thing I spoke about earlier, where I said, you’ve got a customer on a monthly plan, you’re able to connect their usage, right? Or consumption, which was this thing, which is a combination of content and features over time, as I defined it early. When you track a monthly user whose consumption of your service is steady, or going up modestly on a period over period basis, and you approach them, be that person inside Nordstrom walks up to them the next time they show up to your store and say, “Hey, Vivian. Thanks for being a great customer. Can I give you 15% off to take the annual plan?” Because we have all this amazing stuff that you know about, and we have even more amazing stuff coming to find a way to say it in 20 words. 57%. 57% of people on average. So that means there are cases where it’s higher and there are cases where it’s lower, but 57% of end users end up taking the annual plan at that point when they’re presented with that offer.

Rajeev Raman:

So you can just think about the impact it has to your revenue when you get that hundred and if you’re a $10 a month service and it’s a hundred and some dollar annual price. That’s a ridiculous impact to your cashflow, right? Those of us who come from business of trying to grow your business on a cash basis, it can just be this incredible engine for you to just really push forward and do more with, because you’re seeing all this money, literally cash come through the front door when you do these simple steps.

Michael Daley:

Absolutely. I think just to sort of follow on from that, I’ll look at it from the payment side of things and around when and what effects passive churn can have on you as a business, as we were talking about earlier, just increasing five percent retention can have a massive impact on your overall subscription numbers. But we can see that also based on vertical as well. So depending on the kind of industry that you’re in, there can be quite different patterns of retention through things like payment failure. So for example, we would see in say the software space, there’s a good initial success rate that people are coming through, 85 to 90% of the people are quite happily having payments made on a monthly basis, as an example. If we look at dating, that’s kind of quite different because as you can imagine, that’s not sort of a long-term subscription basis. And so you can’t see the sort of… That peaks and drops quite a lot.

Michael Daley:

If you look at people who are using, box subscriptions, again, normally when somebody is coming into a box subscription, they’re quite specifically after something in that particular subscription itself. So again, we don’t see people chopping and changing too much when we look at box subscriptions. But again, we can see a good success rate of 85% as an average. If we look across all geographies, if look across all of the different verticals that we see today, on average, we’re looking at say 15% of recurring payments are failing.

Michael Daley:

That’s a lot. If there isn’t any kind of remediation that’s done with those, and this can be the very simple stuff, just I’m going to retry it, all the way through to far more complicated things around, I’m going to do analysis on why it failed and when should I actually retry again, should it be a Monday or Wednesday or Friday, should I wait a weekend? There’s a ton of things that can be done in that whole retention space. If you can do that, the actual impact to revenue can be huge. We are seeing, for example, in the publishing space that quite regularly, we see them only getting a 50% success rate, on initial attempts. And so we’re able to then, when you apply those sorts of passive churn techniques that we’ve talked about, you’re able to bring them right up to 90 plus percent in terms of success rates.

Michael Daley:

That is an enormous amount of revenue that you’re bringing into the business. It goes from both ends of the scale as well, from a small business, all the way up to the much larger businesses. That still has a huge impact. It’s a case of you’re just leaving money on the table by not having some kind of mechanism to monitor control and then attempt to recover those failed payments. So this can be many tens of thousands of dollars a month. For some businesses, it can be many millions of dollars a month for other businesses. So it really scales across all business sizes to really look and focus on, if something’s going wrong with the payment mechanisms, what is it? How can I deal with that? As efficiently as possible. And that can have an enormous effect on revenue specifically.

Vivian Xie:

Awesome. Thank you. So let’s move on to the Q and A. Thank you both for your insights and lots of great different perspectives and examples that we can all draw from. So this is a question from our crowd is, how are emergency type subscription services different? So emergency meaning it’s on an annual plan. It’s technically one time payment, per year. For example, she says she only engages when her car breaks down or has a mechanical problem concern. She may pay year after year, but never use what she pays for. I think her question is about how can she better derive value out of that subscription? What are your thoughts?

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. Well, look, I mean, I think data can come to your rescue here as well. I’ll give you a couple of specific examples, right? So let’s take the simple case where you have a person. It’s effectively an insurance that you’re buying. It’s a type of insurance, right? Car break down, “Hey, if my car breaks down, then you’re here to help me.” If your car does break down and you get the help, you need to do nothing further because now you know, “I got my value from what I paid you to get.” AAA is a good example of that. But let me give you a different example where maybe you never had to avail of it and what you could do with data. If you’re able to look at the zip code that the customer lives in and you have other customers in the same zip code, maybe zip code is too narrow, maybe you need to be city, state, country. I don’t know, whatever level you need to be at.

Rajeev Raman:

That’s meaningful to the business where you’re offering this emergency type service, look at the data of like how many people kind of avail, of this emergency services benefit. Maybe that has context that you can bring back to the customer the next time you see them online, or you communicate with them over email or some other fashion, which is, “Vivian, thank you for being a member. Did you know 75 people, this month, that live in San Jose, were able to benefit from our presence because we help them with these four things?” That alone is sufficient to reinforce that the reason they signed up with you in the first place is still valid, there are things that are specific.

Rajeev Raman:

I use location as the context, it could be something else that’s the context, right? I’ll give you a different example. Let’s say an antivirus program. So now, your people are paying you for something that they may or may not see the benefit from. Now, here’s the way you can relate to the customer using their type of device. You can say that so many Apple Mac books were protected from malicious… That we found these many problems with Apple Macs just like yours and we help protect them. So you just have to figure out the context. But the answer is I would still say is in the data, I still think you can look there and find something even for a service, which is less about, it’s almost the opposite. It’s almost the opposite of usage. Or where you’re paying for not wanting, not having to use it, but having it there, should you need it?

Michael Daley:

Yeah, I would agree with that completely. I think, one of the other things that we have seen, because even, I mean, we talk about subscriptions as being very new, but actually, if you think about it, subscriptions have been around for a long, long time. They’re just now being applied to many, many more things than they used to be applied to. And so those companies like car insurance or breakdown or medical, they’re having to look and reevaluate how they’re actually delivering that service to customers because customers are now expecting a lot more, they are sitting and thinking, “I’m paying you for 12 months. I may not use you for 12 months. So where is the value?” And they’re having to reemphasize that, as Rajeev was saying. But we’re also seeing people actually still there to make money, but we’re actually seeing them use the data to understand, can I change the kind of payments that people are making? Can I change the rate that people are paying based on… Location could be one of them.

Michael Daley:

Based on the kind of insurance that it is, based on their history. But there’s a number of different data points you can look at, to actually adjust the price for these people. We’re seeing some examples of where companies again are saying, well, we see a rise in let’s say breakdowns, as an example, we see a rise in breakdowns over this period of time, maybe through the summer where people are driving around, using their cars a lot more, but a decreasing breakdowns outside of that. So you can end up having sort of peak and off-peak usage for those sorts of services as well. So I think that comes down to choice. That’s not personal choice as in you specifically as a user, but being able to give again, this categorization of customer’s choice based on where they live, based on the kind of vehicle they have, how many miles they’re doing. That again, is choice that historically has never been seen in those sorts of industries, but they’re now pushing for a lot to actually understand how they can bring that choice to customers to stay effective, to stay relevant today.

Vivian Xie:

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree with you both on that. And one last question from our attendees to wrap up. Retaining customers is an ongoing effort. What are some ways that Vindicia and Redfast hold subscription providers accountable for their own growth? Whether that’s transparency, data centralization, et cetera, what do you think are the most important factors? Thank you.

Michael Daley:

Yeah. I think certainly at the moment, that’s a very interesting question when you look, internationally. I think one of the big areas that we’re seeing more growth is by customers offering certainly their digital services across borders. So not just in the US, not just in Europe, not just in Asia Pacific, but actually across all of those regions. And with that comes a level of complexity when you look at GDPR, when you look at a lot of the other privacy regulations that are coming in many of the other regions of the world. It’s important that one, the subscription company understands the impact that has on them and how that has an impact on their data. Because really there are things that you can’t do with data now that you maybe you could have done previously. And so you need to understand that, how does that impact me and what analysis I can perform based on the kind of data that I can hold, when people can tell me, I’ve got to forget about them, things like that.

Michael Daley:

So I think that there is very much a requirement for subscription companies to understand the rules in which they’re operating, especially if they’re going across geographies, but also to understand the best practices and really look into those. So, as you said about being open and transparent, having very, very clear terms and conditions is something that sounds surprisingly simple, but it’s something that isn’t really done by all of the subscription companies, even today. And yet it’s something that can, in a situation where, in subscriptions charge backs are inevitable that are going to happen. And if you want to actively fight charge backs and be successful showing that there was clear terms and conditions about the use, your service and that they would have been seen and recognized and signed up to as part of the buy flow, that’s a very simple task that, again, not everybody does, and it can protect them from charge backs and the costs that go with those charge backs.

Michael Daley:

So I do think that there is a lot that companies can do, like Vindicia and Redfast around helping subscription companies do that, but we can’t do everything. We can help them enforce the kind of rules and regulations that are out there, but a subscription business does need to understand what those rules are and the impact they have on their business, because otherwise they’re not going to have the strategies necessary to deal with them going forward.

Rajeev Raman:

Yeah. I agree. I think from our perspective, what I often tell our customers is that, “Look, if your plans page is starting to put numbers down, dividing by the biggest possible number, there is.” They say, “Oh well, it’s $100 a month or it’s 35 cents a day.” The minute you find yourself trying to do things like that in order to communicate to customers that this plan is a better value than the other one, my guidance has always been the same thing if they’ll listen, is, step away from that. You are way better off introducing a free tier. Maybe you have never contemplated doing something like that, being that you’ve always grown up in the subscription business. But guess what? That is a way more powerful tool that you can have to bring people in and then get them to where they want to go, be at the annual plan, be at the monthly plan, be at the lower plan, be at the higher plan than it would be for you to sort of create these walls, which we’re seeing actually in a lot of them.

Rajeev Raman:

I mean, we’ve all experienced the frustration of clicking on an article and going up, “Sorry, too bad. You can’t read it. You got to pay to read it.” I understand those businesses need to make money, but the free tier, if you’d asked me five years ago, would Netflix have a free tier? I would have said, “That’s impossible. It’s never going to happen.” Go to their website now. There are shows you can watch for free. And this is exactly that point where you talked about transparency and the things you can do and can’t do, I just think having a simple pricing plan or plans where the benefits are clearly communicated to the user, where the value that they get from that benefit is clearly communicated and don’t create hurdles. I’ve seen too many businesses that believed the right thing to do is to make the cancel process as difficult as possible.

Rajeev Raman:

On the other hand, I also think making a one-click cancel where you just click cancel and you’re done is a terrible idea. Because you’ve done nothing to address this customer’s frustration as to why they’re canceling. So making it hard without trying to understand why they’re trying to cancel is a terrible idea. Making it so easy that they’re one-click and they’re out is also a terrible idea. So I think this is again, back to communication, back to empathy, back to transparency. If you’re straight up with what you’re trying to do with your customer, I think you’ll find that most customers, that’s not to say that there aren’t people in different demographics, different locations, different geographies that might try to game your system, might try to take advantage, get free trials, one behind the other. These are age old issues that aren’t going to go away overnight.

Rajeev Raman:

But for the core of your customers that are paying you a monthly fee, doing right by you and yet some portion of them are leaving, I think there’s really a great opportunity for you to sort of use the power of insight, the power of individual insight and the individual action and the one-to-one attention, to try to turn that into a positive from a negative.

Vivian Xie:

Absolutely. It goes back to using and leveraging your subscription intelligence that you have, and really observing the wides and your customer’s behaviors. So thank you both for joining us and I will hand it off to Kathy.

Kathy Greenler Sexton:

Well, thank you everybody for joining us today. A fantastic discussion. Some of my favorite quotes are the power of suggestion, Rajeev. I love that. I also think, observation combined with data is very sage advice for all of us. As we understand, really from that point of converting into a trial or a subscriber, understanding through them and really keeping them for as long as possible. That’s all of our jobs day in and day out with our businesses. So I think understanding that observation and data is really, really key. So Rajeev, Michael and Vivian. Thank you very much.

Michael Daley:

Thank you.

Up Next

Register Now For Email Subscription News Updates!

Search this site

You May Be Interested in:

Log In

Join Subscription Insider!

Get unlimited access to info, strategy, how-to content, trends, training webinars, and 10 years of archives on growing a profitable subscription business. We cover the unique aspects of running a subscription business including compliance, payments, marketing, retention, market strategy and even choosing the right tech.

Already a Subscription Insider member? 

Access these premium-exclusive features

Monthly
(Normally $57)

Perfect To Try A Membership!
$ 35
  •  

Annually
(Normally $395)

$16.25 Per Month, Paid Annually
$ 195
  •  
POPULAR

Team
(10 Members)

Normally Five Members
$ 997
  •  

Interested in a team license? For up to 5 team members, order here.
Need more seats? Please contact us here.